I received this mailer through the post this morning, address to the company for which I work for. It states that our details will be included into the European City Guide, and that “Filling in this form would give you the opportunity to be published in our inter-professional Guide on the CD-Rom and Internet”.
There are the standard spaces to change and modify your details, and a box at the bottom to date and sign. What they only tell you in the small print is that by signing it you are entering into a legal contract to pay Euro 997 per year for the privilege. All the terms and conditions are laid out on the reverse, but they are printed so faintly I struggled to read them.
A quick look on the Internet would suggest that far to many people simply fill this out, sign it and send it back! My apologies if you have already done this, but it’s amazing that scams like this are still so wide-spread and successful! This particular one come from an address in Portugal.
So – please be aware!
Update 7th September 2010
I have have today received several emails from ECG asking for this page, and the comments to be removed as they consider them ‘defamatory’. I have duly refused to do that. I believe that they are valid feedback and that the ECG should take note of their ‘customer’ feedback. We shall see what happens.
Update 24th November 2010
It’s worth noting that following the requests that I got from the ECG to remove this page, I have not had any further communication with them. They did not reply to my response; which, I think goes some way to understanding these people. It’s all about the threats. The threats to pay, the threats of further action and even further costs.
I think that the overwhelming advise from all the people that have had some involvement with these people is to ignore them. Hopefully most people will see this for what it is; but for those that have been caught out my advice is to stand your ground and refuse to pay. At worst seek legal advice if you feel that the form was filled out in error and they are pursuing you for payment.
Update 19th January 2011
I thought that I would attach a letter that was received by one of my readers, from their MEP. I attach it with their permission and in full. I have highlighted some areas that I feel are of importance.
Dear Mike,
Thank you for contacting me about the European City Guide scam. I was sorry to hear that you have been targeted by this organisation. A number of attempts to halt these scams are underway at national and European level.
In my view, you are quite correct not to have paid any money to the ECG. The ‘contract’ that you were tricked into signing has been judged as deceptive by several national authorities across the European Union, including the UK’s Office of Fair Trading. For this reason, although the ECG and its sister debt collection companies will continue to bully and threaten their victims, they have never been known to take anyone to court in the UK. Another strategy of theirs is to offer a discount as a ‘gesture of goodwill’; many victims have been tricked into paying this reduced amount, but have subsequently found that even this is not enough to end the harassment.
There has been progress on this issue in the Parliament. The Petitions Committee in the parliament has drafted a Report (Maltese MEP Simon Busuttil is the rapporteur) on the ECG which was approved in December by a massive majority. Meanwhile, the Internal Market and Consumer Protection committee has also conducted a study into the issue and an Opinion to the Busuttil report. The Commission have acknowledged the extent of the problem and have promised to urge Member States to enforce the Misleading Advertising Directive more rigorously and, perhaps, propose amendments to the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive to specifically tackle ECG-style business to business scams.
However, there are still problems. Firstly, the Commission regards the ECG’s way of working as business-to-business transactions, which means victims are not protected by consumer protection laws. Secondly, there is EU legislation which can and has been used to prosecute the ECG and its sister groups but there has been no real consistent consensus throughout Europe. Whereas Belgium and Austria have found against the ECG, and the Catalan High Court has closed their office down, the authorities in Valencia have tolerated their behaviour. Austria currently has the strongest position against the scams and both the Busuttil report and my colleague Catherine Stihler MEP, Member of the Internal Market Committee, recommend that all EU countries agree the Austrian model should be a common position in Europe.
In October 2009 my Labour colleague Catherine Stihler MEP asked the Competition Commissioner, Meglena Kuneva, to keep pursuing this issue until a way to resolve it is found. Commissioner Kuneva has reassured my colleague that the ECG scam is something which she will not give up on, and she continues to hold meetings to bring about an end to the practice.
Along with my Labour colleagues, I will continue to make representations on this issue at a European level. In the meantime, my advice is as follows:
- Do not pay.
- Contact the Consumer Protection Directorate in Valencia, Spain, where ECG is based, and ask for your contract to be cancelled. Contact details are at http://www.stopecg.org/.
- If the ECG or their debt collection companies continue to harass you, tell them that you are considering legal action against them under European directives on misleading advertising.
Please keep me informed of any further developments.
Best wishes
Glenis Willmott MEP
Update 28th February 2011
There’s also a UK Action Fraud helpline which has been setup, which has been getting some airtime recently which I thought that I would include in this article. For more information take a look at http://www.actionfraud.org.uk/report_fraud
Update 2nd March 2011
Joselyne Reid very kindly contacted me, after contacting her MEP about this scam, and has very kindly offered the letter that she received for posting. You can this here. Thanks Jo!
I have signed their forms for more than 12 years for 2 different companies that I once had (both no longer in business). I have now a large collection of invoices, reminders, payment demands, threatening letters from their “legal department”, etc. Adding it all up I now owe them well over 20,000 Euro. Of course I never pay!
The whole thing must have cost them a fair bit, more so because I never put a stamp on the return envelopes. The companies – including non-existing phone numbers – are listed in the ECG for the past 12 years.
I advise everyone to do the same. Do not be afraid, they have never taken anyone to court, and they never will! Court is the last place where they want to be.
And here is to the ECG people (just in case you read my comment): Please keep sending the all the stuff; it is great fun.
My wife has a web site and today (1 Feb 2013) received one of these letters and the return address for this one is
E.C.G. S.L. c/Martinez Cubells no 6, 4o, pta 8, E-46002 Valencia
I was suspicious from the moment my wife opened her letter so looked to see if this was/is a scam and as we can see it certainly is.
We are no waiting for them to send us a bill for which I will return with my bill for them wasting my valuable time …. probably double what they ask for.
I sadly fell for this scam just over 12 months ago – I sent back various letters refusing to pay and explaining that I had signed the form in error believing I was simply confirming details. After several letters from ECG I got a letter from them saying they were handing the matter to an international debt collection agency. I didn’t bother to reply that and so far have heard nothing from the debt collection agency. However this morning I have received a new letter from ECG stating that I now owe for two years advertising.
BE AWARE this letter also states that ECG now has a new business name and address – PORTAL EMPRESARIAL S.L. at C/Mayor 4, 3a 6a, 46980 Paterna, Spain.
It would seem they have to adapt again and move on to continue their scam. I have only just received this letter but I think the best thing to do this time is just completely ignore it and not reply. I certainly have no intention of paying. I thought this matter had died a death but clearly not.
Does anybody have a view on whether I am best not to reply?
Thanks so much – it is good to get some solidarity from everyone else out there that has been affected by this.
Best regards
Emma
Our Company has had exactly the same experience. I signed the form and did not read the small print back in 2009. I was not authorised to commit the Company to this sort of expense and would have sought permission from our financial director if I had realised that there were any financial implications in signing.
We have received an email from their ‘legal’ department this morning and I have deleted it. There is no way we are paying them anything.
Their working practices are totally deceptive.
i have had the same signed aform oct 2008 small print unreadable and never dreamt i would be getting invoices for 1000,s sent them severall letter.s infofming them i would not be paying they sent me another cd a year later thanking me for continueing to do buisness with them i sent it back and this letter
Dear Sir,
?
In reference to your last demand for monies, please note that you have been informed many times that I do not wish to include or be represented in any internet directory..
Please therefore cancel the entry and any contract you may consider you have with me.. I have already informed you that I am self-employed and have no employees. Also that I was out of the country for six months and you were replied to at the earliest opportunity.. In addition on two occasions you sent me copies of so called contract but they are both blank on the back..
?
I still have these in my possession..I must state that given the wording and layout of your form that you sent, I believed I was only responding to details of a company that no longer existed. It was?never my intention to enter any financial agreement with European City Guide also no company stamp was applied as I do not posses one. In?view?of the above I am not enclosing any money and I am requesting the Catalonian Director Consumer affairs to order cancellation of the contract.
?
If I hear from you that you?have cancelled it in response to this letter I will of course notify them immediately.
Please note that if I get further demands of monies from your company I will contact my personal friend David Heath M.P. and request he informs his fellow Euro MEP..
I will also inform office of fair trading and the advertising standard authority in London.. Also inform the Spanish advertising standard authority and write to the Director General of Consumer Affairs Catalonia..
?
Please note the correct address above and would like this matter cleared up as soon as possible to stop wasting everybodys time. Do note my address is as above now until October 14th 2009 which is when I will be out of the country again..
Yours Sincerely
D J Sheppard
i have herd nothing since i sent that letter until today i had a call from a lady saying i could sort it out on the phone or she would start court proceedings against me i told her to —– — and stop waisting my time . they should be shut down for causing so much stress dont pay
Would it be possible to get further information on the court cases or the decisions by national authorities within the EU, f.e. the UK’s Office of Fair Trading?
According to a post “Update 19th January 2011″ above such instances exist. I’d greatly appreciate a direct reference to such a case or decision.
Am really being hounded at the moment with an email the other week and now a follow-up threatening letter asking me to do a deal of paying the first instalment and that will bring this whole thing to an amicable conclusion – NOT. I will of course be ignoring ALL CORRESPONDENCE FROM THEM FROM NOW ON what is happening out there with the rest of you?
I fell for this scam also they are now asking for payment of 3 years totalling 2883, then friday had a call from someone claiming to be a spanish solicitor (maria rodriguez) after my 3rd reminder. After 10 minutes of refusing to pay she told me if i pay 250 euros now and 250 euros next month all proceedings would be stopped.
ONLY BY GOING TO CITIZENS ADVICE TODAY WHO PUT ME ONTO THIS WEBSITE HAS STOPPED ME PAYING IT AND PUT MY MIND AT REST KNOWING THAT I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE BEING THREATENED BY THESE BULLIES. I HAVE DECIDED THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET A PENNY FROM ME EITHER.
I am a small hair salon and thought this would be the end of me, i am ready now for when this woman rings again.
Had a threatening phone call but stood my ground and said that i will not be bullied and will not be paying a penny, all this from someone claiming to be a spanish solicitor. Just wish they would leave me alone now.
After 2 years of non payment, I also got a phone call purporting to come from their solicitor. I was slightly forewarned, as my phone showed it was an international call. As soon as she said who she was, I actually laughed out loud and said “Yeah, Right!” and put the phone down. They haven’t yet tried contacting me since. Maybe if they realise you’re not intimidated, they’ll stop?
By reading so many complaints against this rogue company harassing and threatening innocent individuals is there a website of an effective international organisation where each of us could be registered with names, details and events to form a pressure group in order to accomplish results in a legal way. I reported ECG to numerous officials in Spain dealing with the case but resolved very little so far.
I own a bridal shop in Belfast N.Ireland and I too have been foolish enough to full in my details and sign their form. I have now received my third letter demanding payment from their legal department for £997.00 what should i do?
I also filled the form thinking the listing was free. When I received an invoice I disputed it but they insisted I have to pay over £1000. I kept emailing them and received replies about 1 month after writing. I also recieved 1 reminder in the post, but since I’ve ignored them for 2 months I haven’t heard anything, fingers crossed. I called trading standards this morning then decided to google this company and saw this website and many many other posts about this company so now have reported them to UK trading standards as a scam.
We received one of ECG’s faxes some years ago – the secretary filled in change-of-address (as we had moved premises) and sent it back. Then the demands for money started & she was very apologetic. Clearly the fax is designed to confuse and it contained no authorised signatory. I told ECG this and advised them to sue us if they believe they are due monies. After some more letters they stopped trying.
I too signed the form in may 2012 only to receive a proof of advert and a bill. I responded with the following:
Date: 19 September 2012 15:43
Subject: 632163
To: service@industry-commerce.com
Dear Sir/Madam.
I write to you to inform you that I do not wish to take this advert nor did I find this copy value for money and would not go ahead.
I found your letter misleading and was only updating your files.
It appears that you have not only mislead me but many others. Please delete me from your files as no payments will be made to your selves due to the time lapse in your following up nor have I had any correspondence since returning the form in May 2012 until your request in September 2012.
Not the kind of service I would expect for such a high price. I will not be paying so ensure you cancel any order you feel you have from me reference 632163.
Please see link below as its well documented that your letters are miss leading:
European City Guide Scam « David Baldaro Weblog
david.baldaro.me.uk/2010/02/european-city-guide-scam
STOP The European City Guide!
THEY REPLIED WITH:
Valencia, 08/10/2012
Our Ref.: 632163/SL
http://www.united-kingdom-industry-commerce.com
Dear ……,
We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail dated 19/09/2012 and we would like to point out that the reason why it took so long for us to send you the proof of your advertisement and our invoice is that your order form was received at our offices on 25/07/2012, as you can see from the scanned copy attached. We would like to inform you that since the order form was signed, dated 14/05/2012, and returned to us it is not possible to withdraw your order contract with the Industry & Commerce. This order has contractually committed both parties in the service clearly expressed in our mailing.
Our order form cannot be considered misleading since it was sent to you by mail so that it could be filled in without any influence whatsoever from our company. The terms and conditions, including the cost in Euro, are clearly stated in the section marked Order. Both the words “Euro” and “Order” are highlighted in black and bold print. The undersigned has all the time required in order to decide whether or not to place an order.
In view of the above, we have to insist upon fulfilment of the contract and kindly ask you to settle the outstanding amount at your earliest convenience.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Service
p.p. F. López
Industry & Commerce
I RESPONDED AGAIN WITH:
8 Oct
to INDUSTRY-COMME.
I responded straight away as soon as I received your proof, informing you that I did not want to go ahead with any advert as I did not except your very poor proof and explaining that I did not want an advert. let alone at such a high price. Form returned to update your records only.
Ounce more. Your form is very misleading as your company has been on television and there are websites addressing this fact. They all agree to ignore your requests and recommend letting you fight in a court of law. I really did think you wanted to update records and I really did amend a company name and signed only to confirm that fact.
I will not be paying any money as I have not given you the go ahead or confirmed that your proof was acceptable. If you run the advert it is without any permission from myself.
AND SO I RECIEVED ANOTHER:
Valencia, 11/10/2012
Our Ref.: 632163/SL
Dear …..,
We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail received on 08/10/2012.
We would like to inform you that the order form was signed and dated 14/05/2012 on behalf of your business, thus accepting the terms and conditions of the order, including the cost clearly indicated in Euro in bold print, in the order conditions stated above the signature. Those professionals who just wanted their data updated returned the form updated without a signature. The order section clearly states “Order: Please return this document by your signature in the appropriate space below if you would like to place an order. This implies a cost (…)”.
We were sorry to read that you were not happy with your advertisements. However, should you have any further details to add i.e. information, logos or pictures that will further enhance your advertisement please forward them to us and we will update your advertisement at no further cost.
We anticipate that you will take responsibility for your actions in this matter, honour your contractual obligations to our company and settle the payment at your earliest convenience.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Service
p.p. F. López
Industry and Commerce
http://www.united-kingdom-industry-commerce.com
I HAVE NOW RESPONDED WITH:
to INDUSTRY-COMME.
No payments will be made please see my last email. I have explained my position fully and I’m not about to repeat myself.
I WILL KEEP YOU UP TO DATE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!
I too have been tricked and have ignoring ECG for years as it is just a scam.
Today i got a phone call – I said it was a scam – they have now followed up with an email – they will not give up. Hopefully the UK Government will act soon on folowing EC ruling last year on misleading business directories.
I’ve been receiving letters from them for years now, they just don’t seem to stop. I’m positive what I filled out was just asking for information about businesses in my city. I’m an independent driving school, I have about 15 students at anyone one time, I’ve never spent a penny on advertising, whay would I waste £1000 on an ad which would reach people in other countries?
Yesterday I received an email from them
Valencia, 04/10/2012
Our Ref.: 280798/ RJ – unsettled European City Guide, S.L. invoices
Dear Sirs
Re.: Order contract European City Guide, S.L.
The above file has been passed to our attention as your account with European City Guide, S.L. is in arrears. It is imperative that an out-of-court solution is found as soon as possible.
Please find attached a further copy of the order contract in question in addition to a statement of account.
We wish to remind you that by signing, dating and returning the order form your Driving School accepted the business terms defined therein and contracted European City Guide, S.L.’s advertising services for a duration of three editions at the price of 997 Euros per insertion. “… we give European City Guide, S.L. authorisation to publish data in the next and following two editions”.
In compliance with corresponding legislation all business terms were presented including a prominent price in bold and it can only be expected that these had been read carefully and an informed decision taken whether it constituted an appropriate vehicle for your business.
We must stress both the legal validity of this signed business agreement and the willingness of the company to consider any constructive proposals you may have as to a satisfactory way forward for both parties.
Your company’s file will be retained for the next two weeks in anticipation of receiving such a proposal.
We thank you in advance for your urgent attention. We will also contact you shortly by telephone in an attempt to discuss matters with you.
Yours faithfully
Recovery Office
Contact: Ms R. James
Tel.: +34 660 026 370
Fax: +34 901 667 183
Email: js@recovery-office.com
——————————————————–
I wish they would just leave alone
Hi
I have tonight received an email with attachments first time they have sent one trying to do a deal of paying just one year’s fees amounting to nearly £1000 instead of what they say we are due 3 year’s.
Yes I wish too that they would just go away, thank goodness for this website it keeps me sane to know I am not alone with this bunch of gangsters.
Like many posters here, I signed their so-called contract under the impression that it was one of those bits of official french bureaucracy that one gets from time to time. There followed a demand for dough which gave me a terrible fright until I finally had the wit to google the firm whereupon I discovered that it was merely a scam. I kick myself for not having worked this out before. At least I haven’t paid them any money , though took the trouble to write them a couple of courteous letters which I now regret. A question: have they any legal power to get the money? Have they ever sued or instigated court action? I hardly imagine their claim would stand up in a court, but it would be nice to know for sure.
Pluck them thats what I say.
I have a great idea… I am going to send them an application form for an inclusion in the Richard Cranium Memorial Anniversary Circular, for the discounted price of , say , E1,997. Any takers.?
I just received my third reminder for payment. I own a small music company in Canada and also signed a request form for information. There was nothing in this form stating that I was buying advertisement whatsoever. Then I got an invoice in the mail with they had photocopied my signature on to an invoice which I had never seen before and then told me that I owe them $1500 Canadian. After this third notice I did call the Canadian antifraud agency and relayed all the information that was enclosed in this third reminder including banking information for industry and commerce, which the antifraud unit had never received as of yet. So I imagine they’re building a case globally and will be addressing this issue soon. I was advised once/if I started getting telephone calls [which seems to be the pattern) just to hang up. Although I am tempted to, while not admitting anything, getting to know “Ruby” – in some of the above-mentioned postings as good as I can. Striking up a friendly conversation including “how’s the weather in Valencia?” and “where exactly are you in Valencia? Your exact address?” To “its okay if I record this conversation, right?” Perhaps they’ll just take my name off their list as I am now costing them time, money and am definitely not intimidated! LOL it could be fun! Perhaps we should all do that! Just being very pleasant and time-consuming!
Hi Mitch
I to was cot up with them and i got in touch with the BBC TV here in Britian a program called Rip Of Britain and they have been dealing with it and i have been interviewed for it, since they got in touch with them the phone calls have stopped so has the letters.So there is hope for us all.
I have received another letter again today, demanding they are going to hand this over to an international collection agency. The deadline they have given me is 24/09/2012 to pay the debt in full. Can you contact me on 01443 430999 with details who you contacted at the BBC.
Hi Raymond,
When was this episode broadcast – or has it not been broadcast yet. Also you reckon they’ve stopped sending letters just to you or every victim in the UK?
Hi Mr Yu
The episode went out on 20th sept. And the letters have only stoped comming to me as they told the BBC that they had no information on me. So if you get anything just put it in the bin as they cannot take any action as it is a scam , I hope this helps Regards Raymond
Do you have a contact email address for rip of britain as I would send this email I received tonight.
Thanks
Sheena
Hi Sheena Sorry I do not come onto this site very often now as i do not get any bother from ECG. Here is the girl from the BBC i dealt with it is natasha.emerson@bbc.co.uk I hope this helps. Regards Raymond
Thanks Raymond have been in touch with Natasha but missed the programme aired on BBC about the scammers. Unfortunately still getting grief from them yet another communication from them mounting up the costs they say due which of course I will continue to ignore. How did you manage to get them off your back any help appreciated as I have contacted MSP’s and a whole load of people but to no avail all the advice is to ignore but it gets more that a wee bit annoying.
Hi Sheena I have had nothing from them but if i was you if you have not already tried i would get in touch with trade and standards, as this is a scam and if the woman Ruby James gets in touch tell her your lawyer is dealing with it with T&S as well and see how that goes all the best Regards Raymond PS Please do not PAY anything as i lost £1000 pounds.
I have also been sucked into this scam. I have returned the letter marked “not known at this address !
Thanks to this website I have not paid any money and will not pay any money..
Hi,
I’m from Tuzla Brewery in Bosnia (www.pivaratuzla.ba), and we have the same problems with this scam. They send us few letters and made many phone calls. We decide to ignore them. That’s what we suggest to all others with same problem…
Just received a duplicate document from INDUSTRY AND COMMERCE Register of Business Information. This arrived around the same time we are due to file annual accounts looks official. Then you read the small print its for European City Guides SL. If I had signed it would have cost me €997 for a guide I have never heard of!!!! They are based in Valencia, Spain. Please do not fall for this it is a pure sacam.
hi three years now i have been plagued by these people, my latest demand is for 3529,38eur and i will not be paying a penny, all cds have been returned. It is worrying but I intend to ignore, pay no money and I did cacelle when I made mistake same as everyone else, but that has been ignored, hope these people get stopped soon
Hi has anybody out there had been contacted by a woman called Ruby James, i have had emails and a letter saying they are going to take court prossedings if i dont pay, they have also said if i pay this years they will cancell the contract,and gave me two deadlines one for the 21st june and now the 6th of july.anybody got idea how to get in touch with for help. thanks
I got tangled up with these scumbags some 7-8 years ago. It was only when the scam was found on the ‘Jules’ website (and others) that I realised I had been ‘had’. Never paid them a penny. If the debt collector calls the firmer and more abrupt you are the better. DON’T PAY ANYTHING, JUST TELL THEM TO PHUCK OFF.
Hi Alice,
Have they stopped sending you letters now?
I signed up with that commercial guide. I left it with my boss to sign and posted it. Now today, I recieve a “Reminder Note” that I have to pay a 4-figured sum for a guide that I now know is a scam. I get a lot of scam mail through and am always cautious about unusual mail – which I is why I feel like an idiot not spotting that the company was in Valencia! I never contacted them as, from what I’ve read above, there seems to be no point. The “update” letter seemed so professional so I didn’t question it.
I don’t remember reading that I would be entering into a financial contract nor that did I feel was even a contract. I never got an invoice either.
Oh well, it is in the bin. If they pursue me with more reminders, that’s where they’ll be going too.
Does anybody know what happens if someone already paied 500.00€?
Dear Helen,
I work for BBC News and Current Affairs. I was interested to hear about your experience with European City Guide and I wonder if you would be prepared to talk to me further? My email address is natasha.emerson@bbc.co.uk.
Many thanks
Natasha
Hello there.
I am from Latvia and since 14th October of 2011th have the same probs with ECG.
Could you pls give any advice – what to do?
Brigita
Hi Justin I stupidly signed what I thought was an upgrade in my information for free advert in some guide didnt understand it really got a phone call informing me of offer to check details and return my post code was wrong so I changed and signed because I corrected a mistake and sent back felt sick when I got a bill for £970.00 I had forgot all about it as it was 2 months after sending it back. I am now at the legal team stage were the debt has been sent to them (same address as all other letters can you advise I am only a small ladys exerscise centre in Bolton and would never have knowingly signed for this no good what so ever to me should have known better always said no such thing as a free breakfast and work so hard in these hard times to keep my head above water cant afford but the threatening letters are very unnerving with extra and court charges being threatened please tell me what you did to get yours stopped.Ann
Natasha I have today now received an email first correspondence was 2010 and has been ongoing similar to blogs.They are now offering to cancel if I pay the first invoice of just under £1000 my so called account with them now is about £3000. I have letters from MP’s one of which is from Vince Cable, but they do not seem able to do very much about this although they are all aware of this scam. I have not paid them a penny and do not intend to but it just goes on an on. I have even phoned Spain’s equivalent of Consumer Advice and could not understand what whas being said apart from the word ignore ignore. I have been threatened with legal action but I just always go onto this website and it makes it easier to just ignore them after reading the comments from others. Feel they need to be exposed in our press and television as this is just horrendous.
Sheena
I am a victim of European City Guide, i also made the mistake to pay them 500.00€, from the fear of being taken to court, and assuming that it was only for 1 year (997.00€), but it is for 3 years 2991.00€! I am very anxious about what is going to happen…please can anybody help me? My doubts are because i have already made a payment…
Just forget about it. Nothing will ever happen. I receive them all the time and just throw them in the bin. I never give it a second thought and I honestly don’t care who contacts me from these scam merchants…they will be left in no doubt where to stick their bills. haha
Unfortunately, I signed something that resembled a form that stated it was just an update of information. Why I didn’t question it I do not know as we get a lot of scams on the phone and in the post, I am generally good at spotting them.
I did that at the end of March.
Now it is May, and today I have just received a letter with the glowing figures of 997 Euro with a photocopied page showing my signed form. I can tell you, I don’t know how they did this but what I signed did not have absolutely anything that resembled I would later have to pay.
I phoned there number +34 96 119 94 75 and a lady answered. I told her the situation and I believe your letter to be a hoax. She was extremely convincing but I was not having any of it. I told her I would not be paying a penny. Her response was, we can cancel your advert but you will have to pay the cancellation fee. I told her I won’t be paying anything as I have not signed up to pay anything in the first place.
I sent them an email to service@industry-commerce.com stating the facts and told them not to expect anything. I don’t think it is wise to take it up with anyone else. I just won’t pay. What does anybody else think?
Anthony
Dear Anthony,
I work for BBC News and Current Affairs. I was interested in hearing about your experience with European City Guide and would like to find out more. If you would be willing to talk to me, my email address is natasha.emerson@bbc.co.uk
Best wishes
Natasha
Hello Anthony…I am in the same situation…..this i believe is a total scam! I wouldn’t have signed up for any advertising that i would have to pay for..it must have been very misleading information. I have so far received at least six letters…reminders for payment….final demands…emails requesting payment (somehow thye got hold of my wife’s email address…i didn’t and still don’t even know it)(she is typing this on my behalf by the way)!! A month or so ago I received a phone call from a RUBY ? (not sure of the surname – think it was JONES)sounding very official and again requesting payment…I told her in no uncertain terms that i would not be paying anything – told her to take me to Court if she wanted and banged the phone down. I have kept a copy of the letters just in case I need them at some point…..no doubt I will be hearing from them again,,,,,,I certainly- will not give in to their continuing threats!!!!!! Hope this helps. Regards – John.
Hi John The woman you refer to is Ruby James, i spoke to her last month and said that i would get my lawyer involved and she said i was just wasteing my money and i would be better paying my bill
Regards
Raymond
Hi Raymond..yes you are rightit was Ruby James….I amjust ignoring everything attheminute…no doubt more letters/threats will arrive…I am adament I am not paying a penny….to be honest neither am I worrying about it too.
bonjour,un seul conseil:virez votre avocat!
We have followed the correspondence about ECG and the latest we have had is a phone call followed up with an email requesting payment in full and final settlement. They are very plausible on the phone and we are tempted to pay and get rid of them but seeing all the other comments it seems sensible not to pay anything. Have others had this treatment and has anyone paid ? The email we received is as follows:-
Valencia, 17/04/2012
SENT BY E-MAIL ONLY
Our Ref.: 260492/CA/HH
Contact: (Name deleted)
Direct line: +34 682 363 663
Fax: +34 901 667 195
e-mail: hh@recovery-office.com
Dear
I am writing to you regarding following our telephone conversation today regarding an order contract which currently exists between your company,………, and the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE. I have been passed your company’s file because there are currently two outstanding invoices on your company’s account. The aim of my involvement is to try to resolve this longstanding matter in an amicable way before possible commencement of legal proceedings by the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE.
You have previously requested cancellation of your company’s order contract. For your reference, please find attached copies of correspondence sent to you by the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE explaining why your cancellation request has been rejected.
Please also find attached a scanned copy of the original order form which was completed, signed and dated by you on behalf of your company on 21/07/09, and returned to the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE. All the terms and conditions of the order contract, including the price, the cancellation requirements and the initial length of the order contract, are stated in the section marked “Order” above your signature, and are continued on the reverse of the form. In addition, you were provided with a carbon copy of the original order form to tear off and keep for your reference. This copy is not on file, which means that you did indeed remove the carbon copy prior to posting the form back to the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE.
I remind you that, by returning a signed order contract to the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE, your company has agreed to place an advertising order “… in the next and the following two editions of the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE”, i.e. the order contract is initially for a period of three editions. The cost of Euro 997.00 per edition is also identified in bold characters on the order form. To date, your company has only paid for its insertion of its advertisement in Edition XI of the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE. This was paid in December 2009 by cheque. You have not, however, paid the second and third invoices, dated 12/05/10 and 18/03/11 respectively. There was no agreement to accept a payment of only one invoice in full and final settlement of your company’s account with the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE. Please find attached a summary invoice showing that the amount due by your company to the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE currently stands at €2003.00.
Under normal circumstances, your company’s order contract would not be cancelled until all three invoices have been paid. This was confirmed by the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE in its letter dated 12/04/11 (see copy attached). However, in an attempt to bring this matter to an end, I confirm that the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE will cancel your company’s order contract with immediate effect upon receipt from your company of the sum of £400.00 in full and final settlement of your account. Your payment must be sent by international bank transfer, NOT cheque, to be received by the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE no later than 30/04/12. Please find attached an invoice for this amount. The payment details for the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE are given at the foot of the invoice. If your bank requires it, the address of the bank account held by the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE with BANKINTER, is: Calle Junqueras, 16 3 planta loc. b, 08005 Barcelona, SPAIN.
Please ensure that your client reference number,……., is clearly quoted on your bank transfer, and that a copy of the receipt from your bank showing that your transfer has been made is e-mailed and/or faxed to me as soon as possible. I will then pass this information to the Accounts Department of the EUROPEAN CITY GUIDE to ensure that your company’s account is put on hold whilst your payment is being processed to prevent any further reminders for payment being sent to you.
Please confirm receipt of this e-mail and your acceptance of the above payment conditions. If I you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely,
for and on behalf of
RECOVERY OFFICE
I am embarrassed to say that I have made the mistake of signing the form sent by ECG – its the more recent version with the 997 in bold. That said I do not think the form is very clear and it undoubtedly gives the impression of being something more official than it is as well as being more of a confirmation of details. I have had a number of letters from them including my 3rd demand for payment saying they have incurred commensurate costs. I get a lot of reassurance from looking at the posts on this website but at the same time the thought of being pursued is stressful. Does any one have further comments on the most recent form and whether its realistic refusing to pay – the form was signed genuinely by mistake.
Hi.
I received a form from the ‘Industry And Commerce Register of Business Information’ this morning – this is basically the same as the form discussed above except that the 997 Euros is shown in bold.
I had no intention of signing the form but was concerned that this may relate to an earlier phone call as I have signed up over the phone to a Directory – but at a much lower cost!
Because I was concerned I googled the European City Guide (this is mentioned in the small print at the bottom of the form) and found all the info about this scam.
As I said above, I am not going to sign this form, but is there anything else I should do with it other than shredding it? – does anyone need it for evidence?
Thanks
Thank god you have this page of information. Just received my letter this morning wondering what an earth its all about. I never fill in forms unless i am really sure. When i saw the envelope with address Valencia then this means trouble.
We have a small business selling online books. My 75 Year old mother works one or two days per week, and she mistakingly filled out one of these forms.
It has caused her so much stress, as she is worried that they will take us to court. I have however had some peace by showing her the stop ecg and other comments from like minded people whom have been dooped by the evil b*****ds.
I am tempted to go vigilante and round up a number of people to storm their office with letters, phonecalls emails etc….KONY 2012 style!!!
Dear Joe,
I work for BBC News and Current Affairs. I was interested in hearing about your expereince with European City Guide. Would you be willing to talk to me so I can find out more? My email address is natasha.emerson@bbc.co.uk
Many thanks
Natasha
Hi Natasha,
I’m working in Tuzla brewery (Bosnia) which had the same experience with this company. It seems that there are hundreds of companies which have same problems.
http://david.baldaro.me.uk/2010/02/european-city-guide-scam/
slightly more recent bad publicity for you.
I have just completed my letter to the Valencian authorities.
I will not be paying you any money.
GO AWAY you sarcastic shit.
From: LEGAL DEPARTMENT [mailto:legal.dept@ecg-sl.com]
Sent: 19 March 2012 14:16
To: Alison Thorne
Subject: Ref. 267299
Importance: High
Dear Madam,
It appears that you believe that copying and pasting a letter from a dubious internet blog, which is based entirely on an obsolete form issued prior to 2003, will enable you to prematurely cancel your order contract despite being outside the agreed withdrawal period.
However, as detailed on the order contract, which must be read and understood in full at the time of signing, it is not a request for information, nor a request for correction of the database and such you have agreed to all terms & conditions contained herein.
This letter is to notify you that the Publisher still considers that the agreement does exist between the two organisations and awaits your full settlement for the contracted service as outlined in the order section of your contract.
Your Establishment is required to forward its overdue payment immediately.
—– Original Message —–
From: Alison Thorne
To: ‘LEGAL DEPARTMENT’
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 3:09 PM
Subject: Your ref 267299
Sirs,
Further to your letter of 29th February 2012.
I have responded previously 14th February and have not changed my view.
As before,
1. Your “alleged” contract is misleading. I believed I was responding to a request for revised information, it was never my intention to enter into any kind of financial agreement with the European City Guide.
2. On researching your operation, it appears that the layout of the form has been officially confirmed as MISLEADING by the Advertising Standards Authorities in both Britain and Spain and that you have already been subjected to legal actions by the Office of Fair Trading in Britain and the Director General for Consumer Affairs at the Department of Industry, Commerce and Tourism in Barcelona.
In view of the above and my previously correspondence, I will not be sending any sort of payment and I am requesting the Catalonian Director General for Consumer Affairs to order cancellation of the alleged “contract”.
If I hear from you that you have cancelled the alleged “contract” in response to this letter, I will inform the Director General accordingly.
Yours faithfully
A Thorne
For LEX Recruitment Ltd
A new version of the ‘update your details’ form is circulating to UK companies in the post over the past few days, same form, slightly different design, same fee (997 euro). The temptation to mail them something heavy, disgusting, and non-postage-paid in their envelope was nearly overwhelming. However, I refrained from doing so. If I were ECG, I wouldn’t rely on my self control being so effective next time…
Jim
Hi
I posted a note on the 28/12/11 about ECG, to date i have received two demand letters from them for £1071.16 which they say that i have incurred commensurate costs, I have been looking on the net and i am sending them a letter to day telling i’m not paying. Went looking through the information sites one suggestion was to contact watchdog TV program,witch i might try hopefully they might help
I recieved the same letter!
They have sent me an invoice for 3 years worth now.
All letters have gone straight into the bin .
Hopefully karma will visit them.
I have also had many letters over 2 years and 2 cd discs will never send money but yet to have any phone calls will tell them where to go if I do.
I have recently written to my constituent MP Rt Hon Malcolm Bruce who passed my letter onto the European Minister and also Vince Cable. On the advice of the letter received from the European Minister and wrote to cancel the so called contract as before that I had not even acknowledged them. I have not yet heard back but am sure they will not have gone away.
Today I received a letter from Rt Hon Vince Cable which I can pass onto you David if you wishthey are all very aware of the scam but doesn’t look as if anything will be done about the scammers anytime soon.
Hello Sheena,
I too am a victim of this apalling scam. I am embarrassed to admit that I did sign some sort of form, but I am more suspicious that the form that they sent back to me as “proof” of my signing was a copy and paste job. I have witten to my MEP about it but alas I have had no reply yet, so would appreciate your advice as to which course of action to take. Like all the others involved in the scam I have not and will not send them a penny. I am keeping all correspondance though. Best wishes, Chris.
Hi Chris
I have today received yet another letter from ECG with a bill for now 3 years of so called advertising. I wrote to them last year telling them where to go and copied to Mr Bernard Rosell Consumo in Valencia Spain and I have done so again today in no uncertain terms. I will now go through another year of threats and hassle all of which I will ignore. I actually telephoned Mr Rosell in Spain today but his English was not good and all I could pick up was the word “ignore”.
This website helps you to ignore as you know you are not the only one out there with this hanging over them.
Kind Regards
Sheena
I receieved a letter saying I could have a free listing in the guide, that was in Oct 2009, I was just literally going out of the door to hospital for a large operation so didn;t take too much notice, signed it and sent it back.I actually thought it was part of my Equine trade Directory which I am listed in and it was the Europeab version . Many months later, May 2010 to be recise, I received a bill and a cd neither of which I wanted.I wrote to them saying I wasn’t interested and wanted to cancel it, no I wasn’t allowed to apparently, I was getting worried as I don’t have the sort of money they wanted to pay for it.Then the letters started arriving, one after the other, it’s then I googled them and found out how people are being misled uinto signing these things, I felt very stupid as I am usually on the ball about scams but it cousght me out.
I had a phone call from Maria Rodriguez who is supposed to be the legal dept (yeah right) told her I knew it was a scam and p off.She rang back and snottily said I don;t think you are in any postion to hang up so then she got the really verbal, no more calls but today we have this :
Dear Sir,
We refer to our telephone conversation of this morning and we note with disappointment your inability to engage in professional dialogue and communication and failure to assume your legal, professional and contractual responsibilities.
Please note that you are definitely NOT in a position to interrupt the conversation by hanging up the phone and we would strongly advise that you should refrain from such a_ctions in the future with a view to avoiding further costs and complications.
Contractual law stipulates that inadvertent orders resulting out of prior negligent examination of commercial offers and agreements are the responsibility of the subscriber and this has been confirmed by jurisprudence. A legally binding signature on a document is an indication that the form has been read and understood and that the signatory wishes to confirm his agreement to the whole content of the document, i.e. to the order conditions as well.
All these a.m. points would be held against you in case of a legal procedure in Spain. If you consult a solicitor, he will confirm the situation as exposed above. Legal a_ction would certainly not be in your interest.
We thus give you this last chance to obtain an out of court solution and settle the amount of 2341,99 EUR until and no later than 03.02.2012nto our account. This would then terminate the order with immediate effect, payment being regarded for full and final.
In the negative, our mandate would force us to strongly advise our client to initiate legal proceedings in the place of jurisdiction that you agreed to, contained in the orders conditions, i.e. Valencia in Spain. This procedure will generate additional costs for you such as dunning fees, interests for delay and other juridical costs.
We believe that costly court proceedings are not in your interest and thus count on your cooperation to finally resolve this outstanding issue.
We anticipate that you will honour your contractual obligations to our company and settle your payment as soon as possible.
Yours faithfully
Maria Rodriguez
LEGAL DEPARTMENT
TELF.. 0034-682-363-681
Fax. 0034-901-667-198
e-mail: mr@recovery-office.com
Again, told her to bring it on, I’ll see them in court and to f off
Received yet another cd in the post the other day too which has gone in the bin.
If they want to waste their money it’s up to them.
unicornleather.co.uk
My husband owns a small barber shop and we have been targeted by these people. It has got to the stage where we have received legal action from them and although it is worrying we are determined they will not get any of our money! My husband did not realise what he was signing as we have a free advertising service in our area and he assumed it was similar. The amount they are asking is ridiculous and now realise they are targeting small businesses. I have taken the advice from the stopecg website which has been great,sending them emails to say I will not pay but they just send a patronizing reply! I will send a copy to my MEP. I cannot believe how many other people are in the same position as us.
good luck i have a letter saying this is your second reminder 2.883.83 pence join the club…… bin them
I am not surprised that many companies in the UK have fallen for this appalling scam just as I fell for it. They have contacted me with several reminder letters to pay up or my company details would be passed to debt collectors. All I had done was shredded their junks and put them in the recycling bag!!! I will never pay them a dime. They are so deceptive and something needs to be done about them.